Comments for Not Ready for Prime Time: How The TG Rights Movement Went Insane ... at http://ts-si.org , comment 1 to 20 out of 20 comments http://ts-si.org Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:15:26 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://ts-si.org/private-affairs/2920-not-ready-for-prime-time-how-the-tg-rights-movement-went-insane-.html#comment-416 bouncing for some reason. I'm fine with your suggestions. - Cathryn aka Cat Kisser Sun, 24 Feb 2008 15:39:47 +0100 http://ts-si.org/private-affairs/2920-not-ready-for-prime-time-how-the-tg-rights-movement-went-insane-.html#comment-415 It is good to hear from you - thank you for your comment. TS-Si advocates basic human rights and civil liberties for everyone. And yet, mere mention of the social, medical, and legal needs of the HBS-born is taken as implied derogation of others who identify as transgendered. Critics take it even further to imply we advocate the innate "superiority" of one group over another. It is not true. Even so, the beat goes on. It is a sad commentary on the current state of literacy, maturity and mental health that this does go on, but there are a number of bright spots in all this. The science continues to advance, some psychologists have progressively adopted an approach based on neurological evidence, and countries around the world have started to incorporate distinctions between HBS and TG into their legal systems. The work is far from complete, but we do make progress, however halting it may seem at times. I am forever an optimist that common sense and civility will prevail. - Sharon S. Gaughan Sun, 24 Feb 2008 14:48:36 +0100 http://ts-si.org/private-affairs/2920-not-ready-for-prime-time-how-the-tg-rights-movement-went-insane-.html#comment-414 I hardly consider speaking up for one group an expression of hatred for another and in the pain and hatred department, I've suffered far more hatred and discrimination from the "transgender" community than even the religious right. - Cathryn aka Cat Kisser Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:27:03 +0100 http://ts-si.org/private-affairs/2920-not-ready-for-prime-time-how-the-tg-rights-movement-went-insane-.html#comment-413 That's it. You have been adminished and warned about your behavior in the past. We have had to delete some of your posts for violating our Terms of Usage. We gave you one last chance to enter into a rational dialogue. I answered the question you directly posed to me and you responded with continuing provocation. I won't wait for this to get worse. You are permanently banned from further comment on this site. [b]Ms. Sharon Sinead Gaughan[/b] TS-Si VP & Executive Director Managing Editor, TS-Si.org [url]http://www.ts-si.org[/url] - Sharon S. Gaughan Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:29:13 +0100 http://ts-si.org/private-affairs/2920-not-ready-for-prime-time-how-the-tg-rights-movement-went-insane-.html#comment-412 Gaughn, if you can't answer my question to Cathy Platine, then why do you interfere? I asked her a straightforward question, she didn't deign to respond. She didn't designate you plenipotentiary, you make that clear enough. In that case, I don't have time for you at the present. One target at a time. As about you Cathy Platine. Tell me how your message is not a message of hatred- tell me how you preach the gospel of love and work to bring peace and unity, to bring people together instead of pulling them apart and feeding their tormented souls to the demons spewing forth from yours. I'm waiting. - Stassa Sun, 24 Feb 2008 10:51:29 +0100 http://ts-si.org/private-affairs/2920-not-ready-for-prime-time-how-the-tg-rights-movement-went-insane-.html#comment-407 Stassa, Was there some point to what you had to say? If so, you lost me. I've read and re-read Ms. Palatine's article and I can find no hint of cancerous hatred, nor poison of any kind, whether through intent, design, or accident. Can you clarify exactly what 'poison' and 'hate' Cathryn is fomenting? Is there some quantitative analysis you can present to contrast her point of view? Ranting for rant's sake is unbecoming and a waste of time. Debate requires thoughtfulness and reasoned logic and respect. Sorry, Stassa, your comments ring hollow. - Kelly M, Idaho Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:59:09 +0100 http://ts-si.org/private-affairs/2920-not-ready-for-prime-time-how-the-tg-rights-movement-went-insane-.html#comment-406 This is a reply to Stassa's questions concerning our publication of an opinion column by Cathryn Platine in our Op-Ed section, [b][i]Not Ready for Prime Time: How The TG Rights Movement Went Insane ... by only talking to themselves[/i][/b]. Extracts from Stassa's comment are in quotation blocks. [quote]Not really, because you have some javascript running that keeps me from copying content from your site and I can't be boverred to disable my java machine to override it. But consider the whole original post quoted.[/quote] OK. [quote]Of course you're aware that Cathy Platine has been dragging that same post around the net (with minor edits) and caused a bitter flamewar to erupt, on transfeminist and Pam's House Blend.[/quote] I am aware that her original post stimulated discussion that ranged from exchanges of angry stereotypes through (in a minority of cases) substantive discussion. [quote]Did she regret the poison her words have caused to be spilled by all sides in this "debate"? Noooo, she's still posting it wherever she can, hoping to troll even more poor souls into its web of cancerous hatred. ... The pain and anger she has triggered doesn't bother her. She enjoys it- she revels in it.[/quote] I do not know anything about Cathryn Platine's inellectual and/or emotional states. You would have to ask her about that part. I do know that your comment reads as if premised on a couple of assumptions. You assume "the poison her words" and identify it as a "web of cancerous hatred". That is a judgment you are free to make, but it does condition reception of your statement on the responses she received. If you have a responsible and substantive disagreement with her views, please feel free to post your comment. If you believe that publication of dissent you find unacceptable is in itself unacceptable, then perhaps you can discuss that point. [quote]But, tell me, Sharon. How come you're allowing this to be reposted here? ...[/quote] On behalf of TS-Si.org, I invited Cathryn Platine to submit her post as a Guest Column in our Op-Ed pages. Op-Ed, by definition, consists of editorials and opinion [i]per se[/i] Cathryn Platine's column presented a point of view that is credible, defensible, and presented in a responsible manner. In our editorial judgement, Ms. Platine's column presents content worthy of interest to a much wider audience than possible in a limited circulation blog. Publication of opinion articles do not necessarily convey an official position of TS-Si, its partners, or affiliates. The fact that Cathryn Platine's views could be viewed by some as controversial did not enter into our editorial decision. Of course, there are standards we apply in our selection process. In general, we do not accept material that is editorially incoherent or descends into unsupported insult. Literary forms are allowable (such as parody and satire) because we have an intelligent and educated readership base that understands the difference. Because of their nature, we grant wider editorial latitude to opinion columns than typical for the rest of our content. Anyone can submit a column to TS-Si.org and we have invited participation by others. In fact, we have solicited material from authors who represent the activist transgender point of view. Unfortunately, those who agreed on submission either did not deliver at all or provided copy that was unusable due to incoherent and/or obscene presentation. [quote]Now, give me a concrete and credible answer- no subterfuge, just serious arguments. Yes?[/quote] If you find this response insufficient, I can supply additional information, as appropriate. In the meantime, I am curious about the confrontational tone of your question to me. Why do you feel it necessary to solicit an answer that is "concrete and credible" with "no subterfuge"? I am demonstrably open to resposible discussion. [b]Ms. Sharon Sinead Gaughan[/b] TS-Si VP & Executive Director Managing Editor, TS-Si.org [url]http://www.ts-si.org[/url] - Sharon S. Gaughan Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:34:03 +0100 http://ts-si.org/private-affairs/2920-not-ready-for-prime-time-how-the-tg-rights-movement-went-insane-.html#comment-405 Not really, because you have some javascript running that keeps me from copying content from your site and I can't be boverred to disable my java machine to override it. But consider the whole original post quoted. Of course you're aware that Cathy Platine has been dragging that same post around the net (with minor edits) and caused a bitter flamewar to erupt, on transfeminist and Pam's House Blend. Did she regret the poison her words have caused to be spilled by all sides in this "debate"? Noooo, she's still posting it wherever she can, hoping to troll even more poor souls into its web of cancerous hatred. The pain and anger she has triggered doesn't bother her. She enjoys it- she revels in it. But, tell me, Sharon. How come you're allowing this to be reposted here? Now, give me a concrete and credible answer- no subterfuge, just serious arguments. Yes? - Stassa Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:15:26 +0100 http://ts-si.org/private-affairs/2920-not-ready-for-prime-time-how-the-tg-rights-movement-went-insane-.html#comment-403 Please keep your comments substantive and on point. You made a strong statement, saying [quote]Have you any concept of the pain and hatred you manifest in the world?[/quote] Can you provide a comment that provides justification for your point of view? - Sharon S. Gaughan Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:19:37 +0100 http://ts-si.org/private-affairs/2920-not-ready-for-prime-time-how-the-tg-rights-movement-went-insane-.html#comment-402 Not me a mystic, her a mystic. Her, as a mystic, does she understand blah blah. So, no discussions of personal religious beliefs, except the ones the original poster has introduced in the conversation herself. Nice to see you can make jokes though. Of a kind. - Stassa Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:47:28 +0100 http://ts-si.org/private-affairs/2920-not-ready-for-prime-time-how-the-tg-rights-movement-went-insane-.html#comment-401 No discussions of motorcycle gangs, ok? Or personal religious beliefs. On the other hand, if you want to discuss the Washington Mystics WNBA team, go right ahead. Perhaps the Pagans are a soccer team from Amsterdam. - Lisa Thompson Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:09:00 +0100 http://ts-si.org/private-affairs/2920-not-ready-for-prime-time-how-the-tg-rights-movement-went-insane-.html#comment-400 You say you are a learned pagan. As a mystic, I wonder whether you are aware of the fact that your actions, the way you seek to divide instead of uniting, mean you are barrelling headlong down the left hand path. I do not particularly care about the well-being of your soul and I am fully prepared to accept your right to define yourself as good, evil or blue spoon as you may see fit. I am just wondering. Have you any concept of the pain and hatred you manifest in the world? - Stassa Wed, 20 Feb 2008 04:03:49 +0100 http://ts-si.org/private-affairs/2920-not-ready-for-prime-time-how-the-tg-rights-movement-went-insane-.html#comment-324 Jillian, The issue is not hate. I don't hate the transgender...I hate the term they accept for themselves being applied to me. Let us look logically at the matter at hand and make a simple comparison. Two people go to the doctor, one is diagnosed as medically in need of cancer treatment and the other has a defective heart or might simply be a hypochondriac in need of a psychiatrist. Now what would you think of the doctor who sent both of them to the same specialist? Wouldn't you think this doctor to be somewhat of a 'quack'? I would! That is what is happening today when the HBS/transsexual is sent to the same facility as if he or she should be treated no differently than a transgender. And how much worse it would be if both were diagnosed as transgender even though one clearly is not. And even worse to include both under the same laws or regulation as if they both are entitled to the same civil rights as if connected to the same needs and issues. Now to my way of reasoning that is malpractice and I believe to include HBS/transsexual under the same banner, applicable laws and/or treatment parameters as a transgender/crossdresser is also a form of malpractice at least as that might be defined socially. No, I don't hate the transgender. I hate their established monarchy in which the 'kings' rule the roost while we poor 'peasants' accept the demeaning associations of their ilk to what we consider an insult. Being labeled a sub-set of transgender is very much an insult to any woman or man who went through the life pain and then surgical correction only to be told, 'You too are transgender'! Now that I hate and might easily come to hate someone who insists upon linking me to that male dominated coinage! Diane - Diane Kearny Sun, 03 Feb 2008 15:10:42 +0100 http://ts-si.org/private-affairs/2920-not-ready-for-prime-time-how-the-tg-rights-movement-went-insane-.html#comment-322 As someone who transitioned ten years ago, and had surgery five years ago, I agree with the part about living in a bigendered world. I consider myself female, and so does everyone around me. I do not yearn for the end of gender, or demand the end of women-only spaces. I think that the issues faced by transsexuals are different from those faced by transgenderists and cross-dressers. And yet, for a time (short though it was) before I faced the full reality of my difficult situation, I identified as a cross-dresser. I know respectable people who wish to have surgery, but are unable to. I know FtMs whose surgery choices are restricted because of the poor state of the art. Yes, you are right that it would be easier to sell civil rights to intolerant legislators by using definitions that require full surgery. But should we want only for ourselves? I am not a transgenderist or a cross-dresser. I am a woman. But those who have discriminated against me never recognized any difference. I will quote Hillel, the 1st century rabbi: If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, what am I? - Jillian Sun, 03 Feb 2008 07:03:56 +0100 http://ts-si.org/private-affairs/2920-not-ready-for-prime-time-how-the-tg-rights-movement-went-insane-.html#comment-321 I have to state the obvious; what should we expect from these people who want to define us? I would also ask are we so surprised at this rhetoric coming from a group that collectively has such poor self image and low self esteem. Sue - Sue Robins Sat, 02 Feb 2008 22:33:17 +0100 http://ts-si.org/private-affairs/2920-not-ready-for-prime-time-how-the-tg-rights-movement-went-insane-.html#comment-320 Cathryn, you bless us with your voice of logic and reason. I deeply appreciate this article for two very important reasons: 1. You describe the distinction of a bi-gendered world in clear and meaningful 'real-life' terms, and 2. You deconstruct 'trans' activist theory with brilliant pinpoint accuracy. Because they need protection against the crush of the real world, transgendered people have constructed their own 'community', complete with a heirarchy of leaders, standards of behavior, and icons of idolization. Through a tactic of subjunction they have falsely swelled their ranks to include any and every set and subset of human sex deviancy known, including transsexualism. (Please note: I use the root word 'deviant' in its defined context as "Differing from a norm or from the accepted standards of a society." In no way do I confer any disparaging connotation.) They are not unlike Star Trek's Borg, assimilating all as they go, with resistance being futile. Except that... Resistance is not futile, it is essential. To be caught in the dragnet of transgender theory is to be a net of deceit and delusion. I liken the tg community as being more organizational in concept, pretty soon their 'community' will start collecting dues and forming their own articles of incorporation. The only 'community' I belong to, or will ever want to belong to, is the community of humans, and that is inclusive of our bi-gendered species reality. If the tg's wish to pursue rainbows, fine. But leave me the hell alone, and get me the hell off their mailing list. Hmmm...do you suppose they have a 'Do Not Assimilate' registry similar to the 'Do Not Call' registry? - Kelly Sat, 02 Feb 2008 17:36:51 +0100 http://ts-si.org/private-affairs/2920-not-ready-for-prime-time-how-the-tg-rights-movement-went-insane-.html#comment-319 You have that right Cathryn. I'm fond of calling the TGs hypocrites. They scream if you force them into dealing with the bi-gendered reality of things. But, "how dare I insist I'm not one of them," and tried in the past to force me into their way of thinking. I'm sorry, but (besides the fact that the word is so misused) my gender wasn't my problem (it's always been feminine), my SEX was the problem. I took care of the sex problem 4 years ago. A case in point illustrates how the TGs think. I used to belong to a "support group" several years ago. I remember in Sept. 2002, going to one of the last meetings I went to for this group. I was bummed at the time, and feeling rather upset. I had went full time 2 years previously, and was so broke, I was worried I'd never be able to have the corrective surgery. I stated I didn't feel whole as a woman. Two of the responses I received, I found baffling (and annoying) to say the least: 1. One person (who was an avowed "non-op") said he felt whole when he used the ladies locker room (all I could think was, "yeah! right! as though women are going to put up with you walking through the locker room naked with your male genitals in plain sight!"), and "gee!, wasn't I concerned about loss of sensation after the surgery?" My response to him basically stated that I wasn't doing it for the sex (a stupid reason for having the surgery - sex is great, but you can't do it [nor should you want to do it] 24/7). I was doing it, because I felt freakish/wrong having male genitals on my body. 2. The second person (who was the support group moderator, and also a "non-op" in retrospect), challenged me to define "whole woman." I stated, "well, a woman has a vagina," but admitted that behavior also plays a signaficant part. Nevertheless woman have vaginas. This brought a scowl to tbhis person's face. At the end of this discussion, the most I could get out of the "support group" people was. "we don't understand why you're upset, but it's too bad that you are." I realized then, that I was not even on the same page as these people. I only went one more time to a group meeting, and never bothered going again, considering the group metality to be toxic to whom I am as a person. Luckily a year later, I had scraped up the money, to get the corrective surgery. Hugs, Ellen - Ellen Sat, 02 Feb 2008 14:13:25 +0100 http://ts-si.org/private-affairs/2920-not-ready-for-prime-time-how-the-tg-rights-movement-went-insane-.html#comment-318 I find that most of those bellowing for special rights are weekend hobbyist. It amazes me as to how the are so caught up in the GL thing but are quick to say they are hetrosexual married cross-dressers. - Holly Sat, 02 Feb 2008 13:29:34 +0100 http://ts-si.org/private-affairs/2920-not-ready-for-prime-time-how-the-tg-rights-movement-went-insane-.html#comment-317 Many of us enjoyed 'civil rights' long before the advent of transgenderism/transvestism raised its head and then added us under its babble of psychiatric gender themes. But of course back then we were treated as people undergoing a transition from one physical sex to our actual brain sex. It was a medical condition with a surgical result and not a mental urge or week-end want. None of this trans gender bunk which in my thought process is not a civil right but the self expressive right to dress and intrude upon the private areas of the opposite physical sex. If that is all one might need then fine, let them be identified as transgender, but for me the only identifier I want and need is to be addressed according to my actual sex and to be treated civilly and legally as a woman. No law benefiting a transgender will ever allow me that unless I first include myself under their GID psychosis which I for one knew was never my malady since from my earliest days my gender was never the problem of my identity...only the disorder of my physical parts. Answer me one question: How would anyone who had corrective surgery be civilly treated if they were classed equally with the civil rights of a person who crossdressed? Perhaps the civil law would simply say, 'castrated or non-castrated. Absurd, no I think not! - Diane Kearny Sat, 02 Feb 2008 13:14:23 +0100 http://ts-si.org/private-affairs/2920-not-ready-for-prime-time-how-the-tg-rights-movement-went-insane-.html#comment-313 In my opinion, you have hit the nail on the head and the really sad part is that there are those post-ops out there that insist on calling themselves "trans-somethings" and crawaling into bed with the TG's and when you object to their labels, call you everything in the book including insane and in need of therapy including one supposed therapist who insists that's her "personal" opinion and not a professional one ( how do you separate the two??). I am a woman with a surgical history; not a "trans-something" and definitely not a member of any GLBT "community" which has done more to hurt our basic rights than anything else. Pamela - Pam Dunn Sat, 02 Feb 2008 04:52:40 +0100