Comments for Thought Experiment: Gender Theory And The Naked Truth at http://ts-si.org , comment 0 to 20 out of 25 comments http://ts-si.org Sun, 07 Sep 2008 23:33:15 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://ts-si.org/content/view/2912/995/#pc_316 My gender is not confused, you, and all the rest of the transgendered movement, are the confusion. Feel free to go your own way, do your own thing and all of that, just quit trying to drag us into your precious world view. You spend all your time just testifying and justify. Try getting out of your closets, admitting proudly who you are, and just living your lives for a change. While you are doing so, quit trying to control our lives -- it's a very male behavior on your part. - Lisa Thompson Sat, 02 Feb 2008 10:34:04 +0100 http://ts-si.org/content/view/2912/995/#pc_314 Why is it TG's such a Mara always feel the need to justify themselves and don't even have the courage to admit they don't want an operation to "mutilate" their bodies. Like one I heard say "i think of my penis as a giant clit i use to give pleasure to women", oh yeah honey. If I was in a nudist camp and saw a penis wagging at me, I'd know I was looking at a male and if that male declared they were a "female", I'd probably think a "gay male". Now there are HBS people who, as was pointed out, are non-op for a variety of reasons, some physical and some monetary and this doesn't disparage them. Pamela - Pam Dunn Sat, 02 Feb 2008 05:14:12 +0100 http://ts-si.org/content/view/2912/995/#pc_312 Um, hi. I'm transgender, I live as a woman and I have a penis and I went to a nudist camp with some friends last summer and yes the clothes came off. Some of the other guests were confused because my body doesn't fit the normal male/female categories so well. But no one was hostile and their attitude was that all bodies are welcomed. I spent most of the time swimming in the lake and didn't talk to very many people so I didn't get gendered much and it felt like people were avoiding pronouns because they weren't sure. Instead of being hung up on whether i'm perceived as male or female, I enjoy my body. I'm different and I'm beautiful. - Anonymous Sat, 02 Feb 2008 00:14:33 +0100 http://ts-si.org/content/view/2912/995/#pc_310 I just wanted to give my two cents about this after running into the article. I like the quesiton you propose, because it's very thought provoking, but you seem to make one assumption that I wish to clarify. I would agree that if I saw someone who had a penis I would assume they are a male. Similarly if I saw a person with breasts and a vagina I would assume they are a female. In fact I would not be wrong. They are in fact a biological male nad female (excluding intersex), respectively. However, that does not imply that my assumtpion/observation is accurate. The difference lies in the distinction between gender and sex. "Gender is between the ears, sex is between the legs". Thus, someone who has a penis and identifies as a female is infact both a male and a female. A male sex and a female gender. Instead of asking how others would preceive this person, one should instead ask, how should we. Just as I could assume that someone who listens to one rap song likes rap, but instead they could just like that one song. Similarly, here you have pointed out one element (biological) that makes someone with a penis a "man" and someone with breasts and a vagina "female". However there are other attribtes. I'm not talking about the clothes we wear, or even the mannerisms we use. Instead, I'm talking about how we identify. Just as listening to one rap song doesn't mean that I like rap, having a penis doesn't make me a man nor does having a vagina make me a woman. Instead, it's a question of identity, gender identity. You propose the scenario: "Perhaps transgenders see the world differently, but if they do, they need to present a rational scientific explanation why physical biology is unrelated to their sex construct — why the perception of the other nude guests is wrong." You essentially ask someone else to give rational behind why biology is unrealed to sex (used to describe gender). Also, you asked why the perception of the other nude guests is wrong. However, the other guests are not wrong, it is in fact a person with a vagina and a person with a penis. The only "wrong" is that the assumption is made by the group that the person with a penis is in fact a man and visa-versa. As forementioned, we are conditioned to think this is the case, but no different than if you hear me play a rap song, you may be quick to assert that I like rap music as a whole, whereas I only liked that one song. Therefore, it's not that they other guests are "wrong", but that the conclusion was unfounded in this case. Also, as mentioned in other comments, someone who is trangender doesn't need to prove they are transgender, just as you don't have to prove you are cisgender (which I'm assuming you are cisgender by your post and given confusion of gender identity). Thus, the burden doesn't lie on the person who is transgender to prove who they are, because they already know. Instead, the burden lies on you, because you are the confused one, not them. - Amy Fri, 01 Feb 2008 10:12:29 +0100 http://ts-si.org/content/view/2912/995/#pc_306 Certain visitors have been prevented from posting any further comments due to violations of the TS-Si.org Terms of Service. TS-Si welcomes responsible comments. Please be respectful of others. We reserve the right to delete a comment that is abusive, exceptionally incoherent, off-topic, or uses excessive foul language. We will not tolerate comments that contains homophobic, racist, sexist, transphobic, or other slurs, or consists of a solicitation and/or advertising. Any attempt to flood, spam, or otherwise disrupt TS-Si.org operations are subject to further sanctions. - Sharon S. Gaughan Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:27:44 +0100 http://ts-si.org/content/view/2912/995/#pc_305 If we put Mara in a box........... - Cathryn aka Cat Kisser Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:49:33 +0100 http://ts-si.org/content/view/2912/995/#pc_304 I laughed, I cried, I nearly peed my pants......... Lisa, I found this while on the phone with a friend, a forensic psychiatrist and read it to her.......we both think you are a freakin' genius! I had started to write an essay about pie solidarity and apples then declaring henceforth all fruit must be called apples.......but you blew it out of the water with this. - Cathryn aka Cat Kisser Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:42:38 +0100 http://ts-si.org/content/view/2912/995/#pc_297 If you have questions, all will be answered there. Or maybe not. But as for now, quit using this as a blog and spamming this site. - Lisa Thompson Wed, 30 Jan 2008 22:00:50 +0100 http://ts-si.org/content/view/2912/995/#pc_296 So which of the above are you? - Mara Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:54:58 +0100 http://ts-si.org/content/view/2912/995/#pc_293 TS-Si staff is composed of working scientists, therapists, teachers and professors, post-op HBS and their families, IT professionals, medical researchers, etc. Mara, on the other hand, is Mara - Lisa Thompson Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:41:37 +0100 http://ts-si.org/content/view/2912/995/#pc_292 How long have you been stalking me Mara? What has it been, 10 years now? You really are obsessed. If you really doubt my existence, feel free to come to Pentagon and I will take you on a tour. (but be forewarned that we take photos of all the visitors) As for now, Mara, you are just as tiresome as ever and no wittier. - Lisa Thompson Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:38:44 +0100 http://ts-si.org/content/view/2912/995/#pc_291 Enough. Posting a flood is enough to be blocked from further posting of any kind. - Sharon S. Gaughan Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:37:49 +0100 http://ts-si.org/content/view/2912/995/#pc_287 What are your qualifications anyway???What are your qualifications anyway???What are your qualifications anyway???What are your qualifications anyway???What are your qualifications anyway??? - Mara Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:30:03 +0100 http://ts-si.org/content/view/2912/995/#pc_286 I found it funny that my potty mouth has upset you so: there just words right? Whats funny is your: "Perhaps the F word was the proper choice for the situation, the perfect word that encapsulated both the student's frustration and the quality of the student's answers. Even Shakespeare used obscenities when they were the exactly right word and an appropriate expression of his intentions. Then again, they are only words after all and who gives a flying f..?" Remeber writing that, oh and do you think your TS issues from a long derived love of XENA, like you just really want to be her or something???? I think I really question your existence miss Lisa... - Mara Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:28:41 +0100 http://ts-si.org/content/view/2912/995/#pc_284 Men have penises, woman have vaginas; males have poles, females have holes. "A woman's love is her whole being, a man's love is a thing apart." -- various versions from various poets - Lisa Thompson Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:10:49 +0100 http://ts-si.org/content/view/2912/995/#pc_282 I'll quote you here: "The Transgender Conceptualizaton: A woman with a penis is the transgender conceptualizaton that says that a transgender person who, although physically male in all parts with all the original manufacturer equipment including a penis , says that she is a woman because she dresses and presents as a woman." See I think you have it wrong, maybe the TS individuals you know say that or feel that way, but did it ever occur to you that there are people who feel they are woman not becasuse of the way they dress or present. You my friend are focusing on clothing and social roles. Look deeper and ask yourself is it really all about your clothing or social roles that makes you a woman??? Because its not, I think you may have a crossdresser confused with Transexuality here??? I found it hilarious that you Judge individuals so rashly without considering that there are opposing viewpoints to every argument, Like I said earlier, I think your thesis is GREAT!!! and it should be studied to a greater degree, and it is... But your articles do not match up with your investigations and many of your facts are highly misguided and very bias. Yet you claim: TS-SI:Dedicated to the acceptance, medical treatment, & legal protection of individuals in the process of changing their anatomical sex, & supporting their transition into society. I laughed so hard that you are the President of this website yet you have the ovaries to declare your transphobic attitude and nature in your articles. You are confusing at best... Please understand that I really apoligize to come off rude and I did apoligize earlier, and In case you didnt read that I will reapoligize again for any childish attitude, I have done my best to convey my thoughts to you here and have a appropiate discussion with you, in fact I would love to talk with you regarding these articles in a appropiate manner, send me a e-mail. I am all for a well mannered debate of ideas, and i think there is alot I could learn from you. So please write me if you wish. thank you for your time. Mara - Mara Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:55:18 +0100 http://ts-si.org/content/view/2912/995/#pc_264 Mara wrote: [quote] Why cant you just accept that maybe its ok for a man to have a vagina, or a woman a peins, you all are so clearly focused on ones genitalia and not on not thier minds. [end quote] Mara dearest, their is a difference between sex and gender. You (and the rest of the transgender movement) are so obsessed with gender (the social role and clothing expected by society) that you over look the nose on your face (or the lack of it). GENDER IS NOT SEX. TRANSGENDER IS NOT HBS. HBS is a medical condition in which HBS men and women need to bring their outward physical genitalia into conformance with the sex identity of their brain that was set before birth. I do not ask you to appreciate me, Mara, I ask you to think, and think logically and not with your hormones and emotions. Instead all you present me with is adolescent attitude. Write me when you have lived in the real world for a while -- say in about ten years -- but only after you have learned to discuss your situation as working adult. - Lisa Thompson Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:42:58 +0100 http://ts-si.org/content/view/2912/995/#pc_263 The Transgender Conceptualizaton: A woman with a penis is the transgender conceptualizaton that says that a transgender person who, although physically male in all parts with all the original manufacturer equipment including a penis , says that she is a woman because she dresses and presents as a woman. What is so hard to grasp about that? Transgender persons in that configuration write me all the time to tell me that 1. They like their penis, they don't want to get rid of their penis, they get pleasure from their penis, and 2. They are a woman. Makes sense to them. - Lisa Thompson Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:28:37 +0100 http://ts-si.org/content/view/2912/995/#pc_260 Then you missed my point completely I am not saying we need to be Trans anything, we are woman or men, despite ones societital appreance or impression, if a man wants to enter a nudist colony but physically has a vagina, who cares, but you seem very stuck on the point you will be laughed at... I am truly sorry that some of the people of this particular website are so focused on the social aspect you indite. Gender identity is just that, it is something that cisgendered, and gender variant people deal with and it is for ourselves to conquer not others. I just cant get over the fact that people here are acually trying thier hardest to find some bad in thier being gender variant, why are you all looking for the evil in it??? Why cant you just accept that maybe its ok for a man to have a vagina, or a woman a peins, you all are so clearly focused on ones genitalia and not on not thier minds. I mean no harm, and I apoligize my above post was nasty but like the title said my other post on the other article was much more well spoken, and then i decided to read further into Lisas work and noticed that she is a off kilter individual in my opinion, and clearly needs to further do research before declaring herslef knowledgable to write regarding the issues she brings to hand. Dont get me wrong her question she brings to the table is a good one, she just supports it in a absent way, and as I said in my other reply to another column a first year pysch student could have written a more insightful, intelligent, and progressive column. Simply put I do not appreciate Lisa's work. - Mara Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:30:17 +0100 http://ts-si.org/content/view/2912/995/#pc_259 Mara, one additional point I might add. Transgender was never the 'community' I belonged to since my identity and diagnosis was established long before the transvestite guru coined his now famous and confusing term upon even those who have no connection with it. Diane - Diane Kearny Wed, 30 Jan 2008 09:43:27 +0100